Terraforming or Bust!

[irizarry]

The nice thing about talking on a forum is you can change your mind (sometimes often)!
I stepped outside last night to get something out of my car at it was as cold as ---well you get the point! Living and working on a frigid Mars in a cumbersome space suite in order to colonize it may have be reevaluated. Then again I might feel differently in the spring! Lets just go directly to the terraforming stage.

What would be a good game plan for Mars? Add mass, pump in heavy gases, what? I’ve heard experts say Mars could be terraformed in 50 years but never give the speediest method?

Irizarry

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[neubjr]

hello,

One of my friends here at MIT has done some research on how to change the Martian atmosphere to become more like Earth's. The best way to terraform Mars would be to release certain methane compounds from rocks in the Martian surface. I am not exactly sure what the best gases are for this. I will try to contact my friend who has been doing this research. She just gave a presentation on it not long ago. But terraforming Mars will definitely need a thincker atmosphere which is best created from releasing chemical compounds from the soil into the atmosphere that will trap heat (like the greenhouse effect).

joshua.

[K6-III]

No better greenhouse gas than water vapor...

This means that cometary bombardment is the way to go...

[neubjr]

actually there are many greenhouse gases better than water vapor. Although watervapor does work extremely well. If you want to go the watervapor way it would be better to look into releasing the water that is already on Mars. Cometary bombardment would be just a bit harder and more expensive. However the problem with watervapor right now is that Mars' atmosphere is too thin to really sustain much watervapor in the atmosphere, it all condenses out into the permafrost.

My friend has been working with more complex greenhouse gases that would be able to sustain themselves in the low pressure thin Martian environment. Then once the pressure and temperature are brought up a bit other gases can be worked with, like water vapor.

Joshua.

[K6-III]

Thank you for the clarification.

Assuming we wanted terraforming to happen ASAP, it would involve a combination of methods working concurrently....

[irizarry]

Neubjr thank you trying to inquire with a friend.

It would be very interesting to know which gases (that can contribute to terraforming) are sustainable by Mars now. I have read past articles suggesting the pollution generating machines that we have on earth would be ideal for this purpose on Mars. For some reason using pollution gases to terraform a world to me would present further problems down the colonizing road. Another question is what would be the gage used to know the extent of terraforming? That is, what would be a “good terra formed” planet (something with an atmosphere 20%, 30%, etc. close to Earth’s, liquid water at the surface, shirt sleave environment). What would the model look like when natural processes take over and make the terraforming self sustaining? I could go on and on but these are some of the things I would be interested in. Of coarse if someone had a penny for every question I have they would be extremely wealthy!

Irizarry

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[neubjr]

Hey, here is a little information that I got from my friend who has worked on terraforming gases:

You're right - there are better chemicals than water. Water, CO2, and some other gases are considered greenhouse gases - ie they have a warming effect. But then there are the super greenhouse gases - these have a stronger warming effect. Water is pretty good at warming because it covers the "window region" - the wavelength region in which a lot of Earth's radiation leaves. But still there are many other gases which are much better, which also cover the window region but are much stronger 'heaters' (ie radiation absorbers) per amount of gas.

The gases I worked on are Perfluorocarbons - very similar to FCs but don't have any Chlorine or bromine in them (so they don't destroy the ozone). These gases are VERY strong and also have a very long lifetime in the Martian atmosphere (ie are not destroyed easily by UV). The gases (which I have worked on) are CF4, C2F6, C3F8, and SF6.

The other reason why water is not a very useful gas in the case of terraforming Mars, is that it only becomes effective at average temperatures of 275K or more - ie need to be above the freezing point of water. Well if we managed to get Mars there (from its current 218K) then the job would already be pretty much done!



Joshua.

[timeshifter]

yes, i will admit that all this talk about terraforming is a good idea. But I think we have overlooked the possibility that the Martian atmosphere just needs a little tweaking to inhabit human life. After all, Mars is much smaller than Earth in size, and with a heavy concentration of dangerous chemicals on the surface, it would not be very pretty for human life.
However, what if it was the atmosphere itself that was causing all these problems with the ground? If you think about it, it becomes a plausible theory.
Which brings us back to the atmosphere problem. If we could neutralize the atmosphere of Mars to make it more like Earth's, we encounter a very large problem.

the gravity on earth is much greater than on mars. Therefore, any fun gasses we put in the Martian atmosphere would simply float away. No, we need a better plan. Terraforming the planet would work to a certain extent, but not in the long run, for you would have to alter the planet's size itself before Earth's atmosphere could be successfully duplicated to allow human life.

[irizarry]

For those who are interested a recent article is stating that previous interpretations of the Martian atmosphere were inaccurate (I think this is old news anyway). They suggest that the Martian ice caps have significant amounts of water ice. This displaces the amount of dry ice there could be. They further suggest that because of this there is NOT enough local carbon dioxide available for terraforming. It seems neubjr’s Perfluorocarbons strategy weighs in better. Question: Are the raw materials for Perfluorocarbons production available at the surface (or just below)? Not to mention, where do we go from here? Are we back to square one?


The article I’m referring to can be found at:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_ice_030213.html

Irizarry
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[timeshifter]

Nice, nice. I loved the article, and I had no clue what scientists were planning on doing with Mars. Using the planet's own gasses to achieve a greenhouse effect is just what needs to be done, now that I think about it. Melt the ice caps, stabalize the atmosphere, and then colonize! Absolutely brilliant.